Composting Toilet Blog
Because I’m not allowed to click on Google Ads on my website, I entered the website into the browser and went to this blog about composting toilets. I was curious about the advertisement. Mostly about why the advertisement was being displayed. As far as I know I don’t talk about toilets here. But, it is a blog, so I had to look.
It turns out that these toilets help save water. It works by converting waste to compost. It’s 100% compost, 0% water! I think this might be a good idea if you want to save on the water bill.
Every family of four that uses an Envirolet waterless systems can save over 30,000 litres of water/year!
And we’ll eventually have 4 people flushing the toilet in this house! That’s a lot of water!
If you would like to help spread the word about it, you can read about it on this entry.
77 Responses to “Composting Toilet Blog”
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judy mullen on February 9th, 2008
Do your readers a huge favor and do not recommend an Envirolet 120V electric composting toilet. We purchased one April 2007, installed in Sept. 2007 and within a month (2 adults and 1 child usage) we had serious problems. The smell was outrageous, this coming from a farm girl. The system does not perform as advertised. It does not compost, you end up with liquid sewage in the composting drawer and it costs nearly $40.00/month (Ohio) to run the fans and heater full-time. We had to move out of our new home after three months and are currently regrouping to build an outhouse in the spring. A waste of $1,700.00. I have contacted Envirolet and get the run around. We had tried all of their suggestions during the last two months we lived in our new house, to no avail. They do answer e-mails, but are better at double-talk than our presidential canditates! Also, I noticed the blog at the top of this page. This reader thinks their is 100% compost, their is actually 0% dry compost, 30% liquid sewage and 70% semi- solid waste that piles up until you have to bail out by hand! Yes, you will vomit during this process, it is unavoidable. I would enjoy hearing any comments. I wish, someone would have told me the truth, before I wasted my money on the toilet and making two mortgage payments.
Alisha on February 9th, 2008
Thank you for your comment.
I haven’t recommended the composting toilet, only wrote about it, because I thought the idea of saving money was nice. It is horrible, though, that you have gone through such a bad experience with it!
Nick Barson on March 3rd, 2008
Hi Judy,
It sounds like your toilet didn’t get enough carbon material like sawdust to absorb the fluids. What did you use for carbon? If you installed your toilet in September, I wonder if it was too cold to start the microbes going.
Do you think your heating element worked as it was supposed too?
I’m planning to install a composting toilet in a small cabin that will be used by one person, but don’t plan to spend the $1300 to $2100 on a commercially built system. It seems to me that removing the smell and heating can be done much cheaper using a low watt light bulb – I have an idea on eliminating the fan and still getting outpressure to remove the smell. I still haven’t figured out how much turning the stuff needs to compost but think that if I use 5 gallon buckets with lids and rotate those out, then the full one can be rotated after it’s removed (and a lid put on) until the stuff decomposes properly..
I’ve been doing some internet searches and it looks to me like about 50% of all websites or entries about the composting toilets are made by people working for the composting toilet companies. I’m not particularly impressed with the positivive testimonials, although I do know someone who’s used a composting toilet and it work for them.
Thanks for your post, I always learn more from the ‘problem’ posts than the ‘recommend’ ones.
Lee on June 10th, 2008
I had a similar experience as Judy – including the poor customer service (no matter how many times I asked, there was only 1 person that would talk to me & keep giving me the run-around – Anna). The electrical components of my toilet burnt out within a month of use. I consider this a fire hazard as it burnt through the wires & short circuited my whole solar PV system. The company still will not honor their warranty, despite my persistent emails. We went for 7 months without a working toilet because of them – and finally smartened up and realized we can build our own compost toilet that works better (and is a LOT cheaper) than what they sell.
Be warned & learn from the thousands I put into this toilet. Don’t buy from Envirolet!!!
Comment edited by Alisha: Last name has been removed from this comment for privacy reasons.
Scott on July 14th, 2008
I read with interest the two comments here and felt a response was necessary.
Envirolet has been used worldwide since 1977. So, Envirolet is a proven system. That said, just like with any product, problems can arise.
As far as our customer service, we try our best to answer any emails promptly. We also have toll-free lines for support and find that this is often a better and faster way to remedy a problem.
Most service issues are the result of:
1. Mechanical Failure
Mechanical failure such as a fan, heater, thermostat, etc. Just like any product, mechanical/electrical parts can (and will eventually fail). Keep in mind that these parts are working inside one of the most harsh environments there is, i.e., inside a toilet. We do have a comprehensive lifetime warranty on the body (outer shell) and 5-year warranty on all internal components (fans, heater, etc.).
2. Installation Errors
Installation errors are probably the most common issue with any (brand) of composting toilet. If a system is not installed how it is supposed to be then it will not function as it is supposed to be. For example, you are not to use any 90 degree bends in your venting system. This does not stop some people from attempting to install with 90s (often for ease in their application). If you do do this you are most likely going to have reduced evaporation and hence a liquid build-up. Therefore, it is important to only install as directed and not to take any shortcuts or problems can occur.
3. Operation Errors
Similar to installation errors, a composting toilet system must be used & operated as directed. This includes: running fans as directed, staying within rated usage capacities, not adding certain substances, etc. If you do not follow directions issues can occur.
As far as the specific posts found here, Judy sounds like she had liquid issues. Odour and wet compost is a symptom of this. This could be a result of an installation issue (as described above) like severe bends in the vent, a mechanical failure (fan or heater), over-use (by users ) or under-use of fans/heater (i.e., to save power). In any event, any and all problems can be remedied if installation/use are corrected and/or if mechanical parts that have failed are replaced.
The case of “Lee” (another name is used on Amazon where the same complaint was published, but due to our privacy policy I will not publish it) has a lot more background information not mentioned by her. We really do not have that many service issues so when one comes up it is known internally. Not as much for the actual issues but for the response and treatment of our staff by the customer.
From the information we have, I can tell you that the problems she has encountered are a result of the following:
1. “Lee’s” system is installed in an outside bathroom or “hut” in Hawaii. (We have photos of it.) This structure does not have a door (a curtain is used) and is not completely sealed from the elements. So, it is very possible for rain to enter the bathroom. Well, this system is an electrical product designed for inside use. Not outside use. (Note, we do have remote units that can be placed outside, but this unit cannot.) This could be one potential reason for any electrical issue (the main reason is next).
2. “Lee’s” system is a 120VAC Electric model. It is not a 12VDC model. Despite this fact, she hooked up an 120VAC electric model to run off a DC battery system. This is definitely not advised and this accounts for her electrical problems.
3. “Lee” was asked to call us as most service issues are better (and faster) remedied over the phone vs. email. The customer refused citing phone costs. Note, we do have a North America-wide toll-free telephone number for any and all customers to call for free.
4. “Lee” was provided parts under warranty despite the improper installation (as described on #2).
5. Overall, the customer has not been willing to co-operate in helping remedy her own problems.
To close, all service or troubleshooting issues can be remedied if dealt with as soon as possible and require both the company and customer to co-operate. We know this from 30+ years experience in the composting toilet industry. We provide excellent customer service and stand behind our products 100%. Testimonials and installations photos can be found on our blog site (enviroletbuzz.com).
Lee on August 12th, 2008
I see envirolet has responded to my comment. Wow, it’s surprising to see that their response was much quicker and detailed that it ever was in the stack of non-responses I had when them when I had a problem!
But similar to their inability or pure lack of desire to listen to the problems – their comments about my situation are inaccurate and the pictures they have of my installed toilet are before it was ever used – the toilet was sealed and completely indoors once it started being used.
Nevertheless, they obviously have no desire to help a customer – just to argue and try to say their product is perfect and always works – and that they are right and the customer is wrong (I think that is pretty apparent from reading their post.)
I have since researched building your own compost toilet so would HIGHLY ADVISE for anyone considering buying one, NOT TO! I don’t know if the other companies are as bad as envirolet, but I do know you can build one for almost no cost (just the materials for the shelter). You can easily find books & other information on the web. We built a complete off grid eco-resort and our #1 problem, #1 disappointment, and #1 faulty cost was the compost toilet.
BE WARNED! I think they can be wondeful eco-options but there’s no reason to pay $1,000++ for one when you can do a better one yourself. It’s really hardly any more work – in fact, for us, it was a LOT less work versus dealing with a company that was sending us faulty parts, etc.
PLEASE NOTE: Envirolet does a great PR job – they run the compostingtoilet.org website (which on first appearance looks like a neutral website) and protect their name extremely well (as you see). Don’t be fooled…..
And thank you for blogs like this that allow the consumers to actually speak about what is really happening with companies like this!
Scott on August 18th, 2008
I do not have too much to add, but here are a few follow-up comments.
We do respond quickly to customers (sales or service). It is in best interest of customer and us to follow-up quickly.
We do listen to problems, it is the only way to remedy them. In the above case, as mentioned, the customer refused to call (citing high telephone costs despite our toll-free telephone number). We can only help when there is co-operation.
If you read my previous post, you will see that the first possible reason for an issue or problem is mechanical failure. This is ultimately our problem, and not the customers, hence the extensive warranty.
When discussing installation or operation errors (two and three on my list), we are basing this on 30+ years of experience with composting toilets.
As far as building your own composting toilet… yes, you can do that, of course. Just like you can build your own car, house, or computer. This is up to you. We offer an economical, fully-manufactured and warrantied product that is certified for use. But, to each his own. Search the ‘Humanure Handbook’ on our site if you want info on building your own.
As far as the compostingtoilet.org web site. Yes, we own this site. In fact, we took it over when the previous owner, doing it in his spare time, could not find another taker. So, we purchased it from him to keep it up on the web. The Envirolet logo appears at the top above the Composting Toilet World logo so that should make it pretty clear that we are involved with it.
And, finally, blogs are great. The only warning is that readers should take much of what they read with a grain of salt, especially if the commenter does not state their name or link back to their web site to show their identity.
judy mullen on August 18th, 2008
To set the record straight, I followed the manufacturer’s installation instructions. I even has on-the-phone direction during installation. My Envirolet system was install with one 45 deg. elbow. I inspected the exhaust pipe several times during the three months we used the system and there was never a hint of moisture that would be running back into the system. The exhaust fan was emitting warm air. I also, did not try to save electric costs by turning the system off, it was set to heater and fans the entire three months we were living there and I left it on one month after we moved out just to try to dry it up, then I turn it to fans only for another month. It was so wet that when we went back to the cabin in the May, it still wasn’t dry! We disconnected it, put it on a push cart and wheeled it outside (so we could breathe) to clean it out!
By the way one, slightly used, Envirolet composting toilet for sale cheap! Expensive special toilet paper (manufacturer recommended) included :)
(just kidding, I would stick anybody with my former nightmare)
Marcial Guy on September 3rd, 2008
I wish that I never heard of Envirolet . I spent 3000$ on the low water electric model and installed it in my basement in June 2008 .Since then we had to clean it out 3 times and ready to do this again only this time I will be taking it right to the dump . If you have visions of soil looking compost as advertised don’t fool yourself it is what it is and you will be up to your elbows in it. I have exactly the same problem with this nightmare as Judy Mullen and there is only two people in our house.
Last time we went on a ten day holiday and thought that maybe the system would dry out only to come back to a system that was like cement hard as a rock and the compost tray was still wet and ugly.
Terri on October 2nd, 2008
I have a BioLet. And the problems are the same! Sludgy raw sewage that gags you! Does anyone make a real working compost toilet!?
Scott W on October 11th, 2008
We recently emptied our non-electric envirolet and vomiting was very close at hand. We did everything envirolet said(no 90 bends)you should do and it looks like 3 months of liquid shit!Im going to try adding the fan they sell for $100 to see if that helps. I would have just humanured if I wasnt in the city.
judy mullen on October 12th, 2008
To Scott W.
I also had the $100.00 inline exhaust fan….no help at all. Sorry.
David Brockett on November 23rd, 2008
We purchased an envirolet system (electric fan and heater) about ten years ago and it NEVER worked correctly. The mass stayed wet despite the males peeing outside and the rake bars became unusable almost immediately. Envirolet refused to honor the warranty and sent us through a long list of “solutions” before finally exhausting our patience…their primary goal I am sure! A class action lawsuit against that company is definitely in order in that their warranty is worthless and their product is a health risk to the consumer. Their game is to blame the consumer and continue to advertise a perfect product. Save your money. I have to clean out our toilet manually (just like most people) so I am building a plastic bucket system this winter.
Dan on January 5th, 2009
I can share a similar story, with Biolet. I can say they have been responsive to my emails and they called me long distance.
We installed a Biolet 20 Deluxe in late September 2008, in a 16′x20′ cabin that is our full-time home. Our first experience with it came when I found sewage water leaking out. I didn’t watch the overflow tube close enough and with pooping and peeing we had leakage in a couple weeks. But – the “check tube” never showed any liquid, which it is supposed to before the overflow tube does. Why? Because an o-ring on the compost tray was too loose and letting the liquid leak into the toilet body before any indication of excess moisture showed up.
So… we turned up the heater thermostat (I already had the fan on 100% of the time). Now my batteries need charged daily – they’ll run the refrigerator, lights, computers, and microwave internet for about a week. Add toilet and done in a day, actually about 21 hours, after a 3-4 hour charging period.
Installation is exactly as described in owner’s manual. No bends whatsoever. I have liquid poop in the “dry compost” tray.
They tell me the bathroom has to be at least 64 deg F. but I never saw that advertised. I added a heater in the bathroom (we heat with wood and have no way to keep the house THAT warm while gone for work 8-12 hours a day).
I’ve emptied it 2 times in the last 7 weeks, both times I could pour out liquid before dumping the rest of the sewage into a bag. Yes, it nearly induces vomiting. Imagine sticking your head into an outhouse hole on a warm day and taking a deep breath. That’s what the whole bathroom smells like while emptying it. Imagine adding wood chips to an outhouse, and that’s what it looks like.
We quit peeing indoors to stop adding liquid. It’s still wet after 1 guest peed inside for 6 days. But… try to tell your mother in law she has to pee outside at -35 F.
I wish I had my $1900 back, I could build an outhouse, put my propane heater in it, and buy fuel to keep it warm for a couple years, all with the money we spent on this.
Now, the ground is frozen 5-7 feet down won’t thaw till June, and I have a 5 gallon bucket next to my Biolet.
Suzanne Mittenthal on January 7th, 2009
My Envirolet is filled up and bottom emptying rake bar is frozen–I cannot empty it. It’s so full the top bar cannot remove the pile that is has built up. I am giving it one more try tomorrow–using a bucket in my bathroom now–by adding multiple gallons of warm water to try and loosen the bottom bar. My house went through a flood, and I thought an Envirolet waterless remote system would be a neat way to upgrade my bathroom–I was suckered into paying $2500 for the model with fans and heater–didn’t realize I would have to have the fans going constantly……An ecologically sound method of waste recycling that is desperately dependent on a constant supply of electricity to make it work and make use of the system tolerable inside the house. After the flood I got rid of my old outdoor potty–should have kept it handy. It’s midnight, and I’m now going outside for the bucket… Wish me luck. I too have heard only from Anna, and she has told me I am the only one who has ever had a problem with an Envirolet…..
Sil on January 7th, 2009
I bought a car and did not realize I did not have to add oil to it and now it is not functioning normally! C’mon, wake up! We have used a composting toilet for 15 years (Envirolet too in fact) and if you treat it right it works great.
Dan on January 7th, 2009
Sil,
Thank you for implying those of us for whom the toilets do not work are stupid.
Let’s see, I’ve followed installation instructions exactly, emailed and called the manufacturer and followed their recommendations, and still have no success. Perhaps there is a discrepancy between the advertising and the true capacities of units, or environments they will work in.
I have no doubt that in a warm, dry climate, with a constant, unlimited electrical supply my unit would work for one, possibly two people. It’s advertised as working for 3 people full-time and 4 part time. We used it with 2 people full-time, then stopped peeing in it because it would not evaporate liquid fast enough.
Bottom line is that they obviously will not work for all people. I’ve been “awakened” to the fact that I have a $1800 honey-bucket with a power-sucking full-time fan and most-of-the-time heater!
Wake up Sil, they don’t work for everyone!
David Brockett on January 7th, 2009
Sil you give absolutely no information other than throwing out a fifteen year figure. Which unit do you have…how many people use it? Full time or is it just at your weekend cabin? I built my own home, am a carpenter with skills in wiring and plumbing and I work on my own vehicles so I doubt you have superior experience in any of these areas, My above post stands as accurate. Give us some details to back up your claim….if you have any…by the way..do you work for Eenvirolet?
Kim on January 13th, 2009
I agree with every awful opinion of the Envirolet system– it leaks nasty liquid from every possible crack (even the seam around the middle of the unit due to condensing liquid trickling down the inside), attracts bugs of all varieties except beautiful butterflies, doesn’t live up to its capacity specs, and generally doesn’t compost the waste efficiently. But we’re not giving up just yet since we’re deep into it at this point– in terms of money.
I think part of the decomp problem is that it just isn’t warm enough in the vault. We have the battery powered version and run the fan in the system as well as the supplemental fan in the vent pipe all the time to combat the stench. Since we can’t run an official envirolet heater in it, does anyone have any thoughts on rigging some sort of heat lamp inside it– like a reptile heat lamp? It would have to be able to be run off the 12V battery that we use for the fans without cutting the power down too much– or perhaps we’d have to get a second battery for it.
I have so appreciated reading all the comments from people who have found this contraption as disappointing as we have. We have very limited access to water and septic capacity, so a composting toilet seemed like the answer to our prayers. But it has become quite the albatross. It’s comforting on some level to know we’re not alone.
JoyLynford on January 14th, 2009
i liked this article. though this article did not go along with the title but it created an interest in reading. lovely is what i say.
David Brockett on January 15th, 2009
Kim,
Not sure of any heater that wouldn’t drain a 12v system quickly in that you would be relying on resistant heat. Propane heat would be difficult to use within the plastic unit without fear of melting and fire. I just built an inexpensive sawdust toilet utilizing a urine diverter I found online (www.ecovita.net). I probably have $200.00 total in the system and it is clean and easy to empty (by replacing bucket when full). I scavaged the fan off my envirolet and mounted it at the opening of my exhaust pipe. I also use a special bag in my 5 gal bucket which will catch the mass and degrade within forty days in my compost bin…..so much nicer to work with than the enviro-beast.
If anyone has a lawyer in their family….or a friend… willing to take on envirolet there are many many customers who would probably join a class-action suit regarding their product and refusal to honor their warranty. They rely on the customers never talking with one another and comparing notes.
Kim on January 15th, 2009
Thanks David. I was investigating propane heaters and came to the same conclusion about the dangers. I just finished reading the Humanure Handbook, and while I could conceive of using a sawdust toilet for my immediate family, it’s the inlaws who would probably balk at the idea. Right now, they use a monomatic toilet that works well for the two of them. But when all six of us are using the cottage, it has to be emptied every day and runs the risk of overwhelming the leach pit.
My husband and I brought the envirolet into the house as a way to get away from the “stinkomatic” and to be a little kinder to the environment. The first summer we tried it, it was clearly not composting quickly, and my inlaws made the mistake of just using it for urine. Needless to say, there was no way it could handle the liquid. The following summer, the inlaws simply refused to use the evirolet, so now we have a two-toilet bathroom.
I think I might be able to get it to work if I loaded up with hay at the beginning to act as a sponge, but I just don’t think the vault has the capacity that we need for our summer-time use. Emptying mid-season would be unbearable–not to mention defeating the whole compost for the garden concept as there is no way the contents would be adequately decomposed.
Another neighbor installed a Sun-Mar composting toilet last summer, and we’re oddly obsessed with how it performed. It certainly has a larger vault to accommodate more users, but I want to know what it really looks like in the Spring when he opens the door.
Has anyone heard anything good or bad about Sun-Mar? I’ve looked at their website testimonial, but after our Envirolet experience, I just don’t trust any company.
Elaine on January 21st, 2009
Thanks very much to all of you for posting about your experiences. I was considering buying an Envirolet (the $3300 SmartFlush model!) for my cabin before I read all of this. Thanks for saving me money and frustration!
James on January 21st, 2009
We have a Sun-Mar. Never worked properly Check out some comments here about them:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/forums/forum.aspx?boardid=1202&g=posts&t=99462
MG on January 23rd, 2009
I would really like to cause envirolet some pain.Maybe call Better Bussiness burreau ,THE AMBUDSMAN, WFive . I’m still really pissed with myself falling for that CRAP Envirolet pushes out. No pun intended .
Govindan on January 28th, 2009
please writing in with step by step format, how to start with a composting toilet. i am very much exited about have read this post. thanks
David Brockett on January 28th, 2009
Govindan
A web search will get you started with plans to build your own. If there are any prefabricated models out there for sale that actually work I am unaware of them. Make sure you have a urine diverter installed so you do not mix the urine with the poop. Additionally you need a compost bin of some type (I use wooden pallets I got for free) for emptying your toilet into and completing the composting cycle. Also make sure that you can use a composting toilet where you live. The “Humanure Handbook” is a great reference and I believe is available online. Good luck.
Dan on February 2nd, 2009
We sold our Biolet and un-installed it this weekend. I’m a bit disappointed that I now have a hole in my ceiling and roof, and really don’t feel like working on the roof in snow and -30 deg F.
We opted to replace the Biolet with a Nature’s Head separating toilet. If you add enough mulch, the solids seem to decompose (although not at the rate Biolet advertised). We’ve been peeing in a bucket and pooping in the toilet for over a month, and there was still some condensation in the toilet that caused a mess in the bottom.
The Biolet cost $1800-1900. We sold it for $1500 and the Nature’s Head was only $850. The solids from the Nature’s Head will be put into a multi-bin composting system when full, and those bins will be emptied after at least 1 year each of composting.
Frank on February 17th, 2009
Thank you for all your reviews, I feel like I just dodged a bullet here. I have a porta john at my cottage that I pay a company to pump out every few months. I was going to tear it out of there and install a composting toilet. I think I will keep my port a john after all I have read here. I have a lot of other places to spend my money on things the cabin needs, thanks again.
Joy Lynford on February 19th, 2009
I am a regular visitor to your site. the only reason i like your post is because its been written with a thought which is practically possible and in a short and sweet and short way.
pallets mexico on February 22nd, 2009
haven’t heard of composting a toilet…so, how’s that?
thought that they recycle the toilet’s water for whatsoever
Marcial Guy on March 1st, 2009
I presently have filled a complaint with the Better Bussiness Bureau. Would you believe that Sancor has an F Rating. Check it out. http://mwco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=160&bbb=0107&firm=1065593
Scott on March 1st, 2009
Please read this about the BBB (below) and you will see how the rating system is quite questionable.
Read here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200804/ai_n25159929
It says:
” A Los Angeles trial court ruled January 4, 2008 that a case alleging that the Better Business Bureau of the Southland (BBB) is engaged in deceptive and other illegal practices may proceed in a case brought against it by Entertainment Career Connection, Inc. Entertainment Career Connection provides educational apprentice programs for the entertainment arts including the music recording , radio , film and television industries. A new trial date is pending, but expected on or before August. The 24-year-old Los Angeles-based business offers certificate programs in all aspects of filmmaking, radio broadcasting and audio engineering. More than 6,000 students have graduated from Entertainment Career Connection programs, creating a vast alumni network worldwide.
The BBB gave Entertainment Career Connection its worst possible rating — an “F” out of a scale from “AAA” to “F.” The lawsuit alleges that the rating is unfair and is the product of unfair practices employed by the BBB, including using a separate but undisclosed more favorable rating system for businesses that pay for costly BBB memberships.”
AND CONTINUES…
“Entertainment Career Connection’s Founder and Chief Executive Officer James (Jimi) Pettula said, “We continue to lose substantial business on a monthly basis as a result of this unfair and unwarranted bogus rating. Our school deserves to compete in the marketplace fairly.” By 2010, the global entertainment and media industry is projected to be a $1.83 trillion industry — up from $1.33 trillion in 2005.
Other companies listed by the BBB of interest include Google, who has a “C” rating and zero complaints against them, yet they are not a member of BBB. Warner Brothers Entertainment, Inc. has an “F” rating, while they have two complaints against them, and they are not a member of BBB. Loews Theaters, now AMC Theatres, officially known as AMC Entertainment Inc., have a “B” rating, zero complaints against them, and they are not a member of BBB. Cingular Wireless (AT&T) has a “BB” rating, 1284 complaints against them and they are a member of BBB. CyberDefender Corporation has a “BBB” rating, 25 complaints against them and they are a member of BBB.
Once courses are completed, a large number of Entertainment Career Connection students go on to land jobs in their chosen industry.”
Scott on March 1st, 2009
These people might disagree:
http://enviroletbuzz.com/archives/testimonials/
Judy Mullen on March 2nd, 2009
In response to Scott’s posting regarding some customers having problems. If the company can acknowledge some customers have problems, then why can’t the company help the customers resolve these problems? As I said before, I had help, via phone, when I was installing. We also talked to tech. support several times after installation, to no avail. We followed all recommendation, no change. I still have the unit and would like to send it back to the Envirolet facility to have your experts give it the ‘once over’, like a car dealership. All I have wanted is for my CT to work, I didn’t want to get into a sh-t slinging contest over the internet. Bottom line I bought a product, I expected it to work, it does not. If there are CT success stories, congrats to them, but for those of us who didn’t have CT success, it’s a huge disappointment. As crazy as it may seem, the failure of this CT system has set in motion a chain of events that altered my life’s course (and my family’s). That’s why this is so hard to let go, it’s no longer about $2K. It’s all about right and wrong.
Alisha on March 2nd, 2009
I’m willing to keep the comments open here as long as it stays friendly.
Marcial Guy on March 7th, 2009
This will be my last post here. I am a senior with limited education and on a fixed income. Loosing $3000 is a big deal for me and my family. Sancor has accused me of slander and of using this blog in a malicious way. Malicious, I think not more like bitter. I did not pick their name out of a hat and invent problems with Envirolet just for a laugh. So good luck to all and Goodbye.
David Brockett on March 7th, 2009
Alisha has suggested taking our complaints to a different forum and i agree. Here is a link that makes the anti-envirolet posts on here look tame: http://www.poopreport.com/BMnewswire/991.html
Alisha I believe one of the reasons this IS a popular topic on your blog is the level of honesty and first-person product reporting featured on here. Additionally the manufacturers also have the opportunity to respond.
KEN REIMER on March 8th, 2009
I’am in the planning stages of building a cottage where a septic system is not permitted. At this point I think my only my only option is a composting toilet and a grey water pit. Is there a unit on the market that works?
Mark Hale on March 14th, 2009
I was considering purchasing one of these and am extremely grateful to find this blog. Will be looking at other options.
j-lo on April 11th, 2009
I worked for Sancor, none of them would ever use the toilet they know it doesnt work and they dont honor tere warranties ever
Victoria on June 16th, 2009
We installed the envirolet 120V low water remote system in our Summer Cabin in 2006. It doesn’t work as advertised, is labor intensive and messy. Over the three seasons of use we phoned Sancor and followed their suggestions. The composter has to be regularly emptied with a scoop and the sewage in the catch tray has to be bailed out by hand. We are installing a septic system. Kind of a sad waste of 2000 dollars
The One on July 14th, 2009
I am amazed and now not very happy about the fact that several months ago I looked everywhere for bad reviews on Sancors Low water remote systems. I could not find any and I googled ever key word I could think of. I went ahead and bought the Low water remote system and Two Low flush toilets. I spent $2600 dollars total, for our system, to install into our new custom 30′ 8″ dia. Yurt I just built for my family of 3 and a half.
I have not installed this system yet, our house is framed in and dried in. I am ready to start to finish the inside of our new home. I have done the humanure method and for several years, for a single person it is not that bad. However any more then three, the simple 5 gallon bucket system starts to become a pain when cleaning them out to keep up with the waste. I would recomend to anyone wanting to try a compost toilet of any kind read that book. It is a process that you have to understand how it works before it will work. I am hoping for my own investments sake that the people on here that have had problems with there Evirolet system, just didn’t read the Humanure book and do not fully understand how to encourage a healthy enviroment for things to break down. My neibor has a self contained unit from sancor, and I used it for 8 weeks, full time use for number 2 movement and I did notice that when I raked the bars, that it did stink a bit, not bad though. She has no electric at all to it, just vented. The bars seemed to not do a really good job of raking the product down, but it did work. I will have to talk to her further now that I have seen some of these post. She and her husband do not use this unit full time. I am the type of person, that does many lines of work, Rough frame custom homes, finish carpentry, I build custom computers, because I got tired of buying crap Bestbuy computers, Yes I even Water cool my custom Quad core that is over clocked to 3.6ghz, and has a Raid 0 setup on the two 640gb WD Black hardrives, lol. I even build custom case’s from scratch lined with Granite as a part time way to make money, Full time I am installing Granite counter tops with Granite Transformations. I even do all my own work to my car, because I believe that 75% of repair shops are crooked.
I had thought about designing my own composting unit that would take out some of the labor and better handle a family using it full time, but I came across sancors website and all looked good when I could not find one bad review on the net about them.
I now am wondering if I should call them up, and start talking to them about returning their product before I even take it out of the box they shipped it to me in. This was a big investment for us, and I know I could of built a system that would of worked, for less money, however, I believe If I did, that I would of run into problems with the health department, even though there are no building codes or permits were we bought our land. I wanted something that was certified to work. Now I am wondering if I have just gotten a certified piece of $hit, for the bargain price of $2700!
tiva on July 23rd, 2009
I agree with the other comments about the envirolet (MS-10 model). I have had an endless run-around from the company, and Scott’s protests notwithstanding, the unit is a joke. Scott loves to blame the customer, but I’ve been composting for 20 years. The design is terrible: fresh manure inevitably gets mixed in with composting manure, in the continuous system. The rake bar does not work. The unit overflows. The directions are terrible (1/4 cup peat moss per day, per person? Who are they kidding?) The company is RUDE. In our lake colony, not a single person who has one of these units is happy with it. Most people simply use it as an expensive holding tank, and then scoop out the mess from the top and compost it properly outside.
Don’t waste your money.
The One on July 25th, 2009
This reply is a Question for Scott.
As I have stated in my prior post, I spent around $2700 dollars with your company. I bought the low flush remote system, with the top 4″ fan, and the 120volt unit with heater and fans. I also bought 2 of the low-flush toilets.
Here is my Question: Given the fact that I tried to research into your toilet system for three months prior to buying it, and I could not find any bad reviews, or people with real experience with your unit, Will you company honor me returning the main remote unit. It is past the 30 day period that you give for the return of your product for a full refund on only the remote unit, however it is unpacked out of your shipping boxes you sent it to me in, and has never been used.
The two low flush toilets I believe I can design into my own system, and can use them. I plan on making two storage tanks of concrete, almost the same setup your remote tank use’s except two issues will be different, one is that there will be no rake bars. After using one of your self contained units for eight weeks, I did notice that the bar method could become a problem.
The other difference is that I will be making the holding vaults much larger then yours, and using a two vault system. They will be set up to vent, and possibly to heat, but from my experience with the humanure method, the compost pile should produce enough heat if done correctly. I will also make the drain system design much easier to deal with, and use a larger pipe to drain my water with.
The only reason I am asking this of your company, is because I have some doubts after finding some bad reviews on your product, and I would hate to install and use the main remote system only to find out that there is truth to what some of the people are saying.
I am not interested in using a small shovel to remove compost that is not finished because the unit we bought that is rated to handle 8 full time users and 10 part time per day can not live up to its specs.
I do not mind using the rake bar if it really works, even if I have to clean it out more then once a year, every couple weeks to a month is ok as long as the rake bar works, and the waste I am cleaning out is not raw sewage that has not broke down in the unit.
I know from my 7+ years of experience that composting Human waste works, and because I know it works, I am really worried that if I use the main remote unit, that I will be out $1800 investment. That I can assure, if it turns out to be the case, will not be a very good day for all parties included.
I look forward to your response, and would like you to answer if I can return the remote unit that I have not used or unpacked. I believe the cost of it to me for the remote unit was around $2000
thanks for reading this,
And I look forward to your response
eva on August 4th, 2009
did anybody install a CLIVUS MULTRUM COMPOSTING TOILET system in their cabins or houses? if so please let me know if you are satisfied.
eva
B.Comp. on September 15th, 2009
I have an envirolet waterless remote compost toilet that works but with some problems. Our application is in an outhouse type building at our lake cottage. We use it only on weekends from May to October. It works odour free for 2 people just using it on weekends but we start to get odours after a few weekends of 4 to 6 people. I had the 12v unit but found the odour was a problem and so spent the money to convert it to 120 v and then installed the heater and fan. Those helped but didn’t solve the odour problem – very strong urine odour throughout our lake lot. We added an extra 10 feet and a whirlybird on to the vent and that also helped. Bottom line – it is odour free for 2 people using it only on weekends. We hav eto lock it when we have company to avoid a revolting odour permeating our lake lot. Any more use than 2 people and the odour is back.
We also have only been emptying it once a year in the spring. We follow all directions, installed it properly without any bends in pipe etc. By the end of the season it is almost impossible to push the rakes through the mass. That becomes a 2 person job. We empty it using the lower drawer and rotate the bars but there is a fair amount of petrified poop that just won’t drop down to the lower drawer. That means removing chunks of poop by hand throught the top. I think a rotating drum system would work better because the rakes don’t work. Toilet is claimed to be good for 8 people regular use or 10 people vacation. We have found it only works for 2 people on weekends and no more. Also emptying is a pain and doesn’t work as advertised. The drain pipe for the urine doesn’t work too well because the outlet is on the side of the unit rather than the bottom at the lowest point. Last time I checked pee only ran downhill. Next year I am going to rig up two drains at the low points and see if that helps. I have had it three years and continue to upgrade and modify to try and solve these problems. I think it would work if the co. would redesign their basic unit. I have not had a response to my email complaint to the company.
Tansuman on September 25th, 2009
I like to add a few things to this topic. First of , compost toilets are great. They can save you money and are eco-friendly .
Unfortunately , I haven’t found a commercial brand that works properly yet. If anybody is willing to build one there is great literature on that topic out there. You need not be a scientist or engineer as some commentaries suggested . A great book with easy instructions on many things including how to build your own compost toilet is : “The self-sufficient life and how to live it” written by John Seymour
Also , you can download , “It’s not easy being green” . A great show about a family in England choosing to live a greener life.
Look for the episode when they are building their toilet.
It has an ingenious gadget that separates the urine from the feces right away.
One more comment about Envirolet . We purchased two units
of the remote waterless type. I was looking for a unit that would fit in a limited space in our 100 year old farmhouse that we are still restoring. While the dimensions of the compost unit were perfect , the performance was not. As long as my carpenter and I used it , we did alright. May I add , we did pee outside because I knew from the beginning that too much fluid can’t be beneficial to the composting process.
Well , as soon as our family of four moved in the problem started. I first made my children responsible for the overflow , telling them they used too much water to flush.
We all made an effort to reduce the flushing and I added peat-moss as recommended by the maker. I have to state , I am an environmentalist and don’t like using unsustainable materials such as peat-moss. Needless to say it didn’t make a difference.
So I decided to take that unit out , to find the fault on it.
I too tried to reason with the friendly people from Envirolet .
I never got a reply on that. I did a bit of research and found all the same complains about these toilets on different blogs.
After that I installed my second unit , which was intended for our shop and let the first unit compost outside. Which by the way produced wonderful compost after five months, which I could use for my fruit trees.( without even being plugged in and outside ) There was some hard matter inside , it seemed mostly from the toilet-paper but that was not such a big deal.
I can’t imagine having to remove the wet sludge before it’s dry though. Some of you are very brave out there.
I did make some changes on my second unit. I wanted to drain the amount of fluid in the composter faster.
I drilled two holes in the bottom of the tank and connected a PVC pipe and hose in to my main drainpipe. I also drilled holes in the tray that supposed to collect the composted matter. It worked better for about a month but as anticipated the wholes plugged up with solids and now we have wet sewage in it again. I also changed the 45 degree angled exhaust pipe to a 90 degree angle pipe with vent-holes, the same as some people use for stoves. Now the back-run from the condensation actually drips out these wholes on to the ground.
I don’t even want to talk about the cost of running this unit.
My conclusion is that this compost toilet needs at least three to four month actual composting time during which period it cannot be used. More than two people using it should not be recommended.
I go as far as to state, false advertising. I would join a Class Action lawsuit immediately.
A word to the wise, always research products before you buy them. We learned the hard way.
U.E.W.
Marcial Guy on October 1st, 2009
Hey I’m back on this issue.I have put my envirolet low water 120v system up for sale for a year now and I always end up talking prospective buyers not to purchase my Composting unit. If anybody really wants to go ahead and buy one of these units I will give you mine.Every time I see it sitting in my garage it grrrrs me to no end and trowing out 3000$ just isn’t right.If you arrrange for shipping I will package this unit and let you have it.Contact me at dragnit@live.com and first come first gone.
Thanks.
Karen on October 17th, 2009
Stumbled upon this site while looking for reviews of composting toilets and man, am I ever glad! After reading through all the posts, I will definitely read the book recommended and try my hand at making my own composting toilet. You all just helped save this 61yr. old disabled, social security recipient thousands of dollars that for me is NOT disposable income. Thank you one and all!!
MARCIAL GUY on October 12th, 2008
Scott w Don’t waist your money on a fan , I had the fan within the unit and purchased an inline vent fan to supplement , also had a 4″ vent straight with no fittings and all that did was dry out the edges of the composter freezing the airating bars . This left the system unusable and had to cart the full envirolet composter outside from the basement for cleanning . And oh by the way I have uncomposted shit in my yard because the only way to clean was to hose it and scrap and prod the hard shit. It never made it back to my basement and is in my garage and I will never use it again.
judy mullen on January 7th, 2009
Sil,
Can you tell me (in some detail) what you do to make your unit work properly. If you have used for 15 years, you probably have some very useful information. I have not disposed of my unit, I cleaned it out very well and put it in storage. I would not be opposed to giving it another try if I had some new information from someone with your experience. Thanks for you help.
Paula Pedersen on February 22nd, 2009
How do you like the Nature’s Head. I am looking into buying a composting toilet and had thought that one would be my choice. After reading all the notes, I am a bit concerned. So, have you had any trouble with the Nature’s Head??
dan on February 22nd, 2009
Paula, we have not received the Nature’s Head yet. We had better luck with the Biolet once we quit peeing in it and only used it for solids.
Will post back. We have a package waiting at the post office this weekend, it may be the toilet.
David Brockett on February 23rd, 2009
Try this link: http://www.ssca.org/DiscBoard/viewtopic.php?p=33874&sid=5a0e2369639552782a8859568380d540
Paula Pedersen on February 24th, 2009
Thanks, I appreciate the link. The reviews sound good so I think I’ll give the Nature’s Head a try.
David Brockett on March 1st, 2009
don’t know about the BBB but you will have a hard time finding anyone to give ENVIROLET anything above a D-. Just read the reviews on these money pits. Every now and then a hack from one of the toilet companies will p[ost something favorable but they disappear as soon as they are questioned re specifics. Want a composting toilet system…BUILD YOUR OWN..I did, complete with urine diverter and composting bins made from FREE wooden pallets. Total cost was less than $150.00.
David Brockett on March 1st, 2009
Gee Scott…what about all these DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS? The ones that accidentally found their way onto this little blog? Must be that we are all mistaken and your product is flawless and performs up to the standards you advertise…anyone reading this willing to take that $2,000 gamble?…thought not….good call!
Dan on March 2nd, 2009
Every company offers testimonials on their own site/advert.
Scott on March 2nd, 2009
Yes, of course they do.
We (Envirolet) have hundreds of recent ones (from last couple years) up so far (with a back log of ones to add) and some others have less than 10. Up to the consumer to decide what that means. We sell more systems so that might be one reason why.
Again, and to answer David, of course there are customers that have issues (as with all products). We try our best to remedy any service issues. And once again, service issues occur mainly from mechanical failure, installation issues or operation issues. These can be remedied and corrected. We know this from 30+ years experience in the field. Same with our product and other CTs out there.
Our system works and our years in business and many many happy customers testifies to that. Something is wrong (mechanical, installation-wise, operation) if it is “not working” that must be corrected, like in a car, furnace, etc. and co-operation is needed on both sides to correct it.
Kim on March 2nd, 2009
Can’t believe I’m being sucked into this snarky exchange, but, Scott, I can’t help but wonder how often you and the folks at Envirolet actually use the toilet on a daily basis. Is it really only three times a day as is described in the capacity specs of the Envirolet? Is there some sort of physical conditioning that you do or a special diet you adhere to? Can you share the secret with us?
David Brockett on March 2nd, 2009
NO Scott your system does NOT work.,..you have many customers who have tried, to no avail, to get Envirolet to honor their warranty which they have not done. Your product does not meet the standards you advertise nor does your customer support…which is more “blame the consumer” than support. You WILL NEVER convince these former customers on here that you have a good product and NOONE who reads these posts will EVER buy one of your contraptions…at least we are accomplishing something and you are helping by continuing to post your hype on here so we can refute it. Great job!!!
David Brockett on March 2nd, 2009
THEN WHY DON’T YOUR PEOPLE COOPERATE? Instead of blaming the customer for faulty installation or operation? Mine is sitting behind my shop after I removed it and replaced it with one I built myself that DOES WORK!!! Your “company line drivel” is tiring. If Envirolet does such a bang-up job why are so many people posting on here with the SAME PROBLEMS? Your crapper does not work and neither does your customer support. You should be turned into the attorney general’s office for deceptive trade practices and offering a warranty you do not honor.
Scott on March 2nd, 2009
Really, looks like an A to me.
Scott on March 2nd, 2009
Oh, I don’t really think my comments are “snarky,” at all.
If you do want further assistance with your system then please email help@sancorindustries.com or you can email me direct at s@sancorindustries.com. Include name system was bought under, approx. date of purchase, system type, etc. so I can located you in our system. Or, you can call us toll-free anytime.
Our systems do work and we will assist you to get it up and running properly.
David Brockett on March 3rd, 2009
Alisha,
There is nothing friendly about getting ripped off to the tune of two thousand dollars and having the company rep try to tell everyone what a wonderful product and service they provide. You are way out of “friendly country” when that happens. If you define “friendly” as everyone agreeing with Scott/Envirolet then there is no point in having this discussion.
Your blog has done a great service in allowing people to present, in personal terms, the frustrations and successes they have experienced with several composting toilet systems. We have also had the opportunity to share alternatives with one another. You have probably saved tens of thousands of dollars for your blog readers.
It is unrealistic to expect those of us with negative experiences to allow Scott’s company sales pitch to go unchallenged. If that happens you may as well put “Envirolet” on your blog heading. I will, however, stop posting on here and leave the issue to others to deal with.
Thanks for your site
David
Alisha on March 3rd, 2009
Obviously friendly doesn’t mean agreeing with him/them. I just mean: don’t be starting a war here because you’re not a happy customer. I don’t want others to come to my blog and see that and then decide not to come back again. I have only so many popular posts on this blog, and this post is one of them. I don’t exactly want my blog to be known for this post. ;)
I’m allowing anyone to comment here, but if it gets out of hand, I have to think of my blog above anything else.
It seems to me that all of you would be better off starting a forum somewhere if you really want to express your uncensored opinions about what you think of the company and your experiences.
Although, I have no problems with you commenting here as long as it doesn’t get crazy with resorting to fighting and name-calling. =)
David Brockett on March 7th, 2009
Marcial I just broke my vow not to post on here again and had already unsubscribed but somehow your comment was sent to my email anyway so here goes. Do NOT let Sancor bully you with legal threats. They have no grounds and cannot risk having their system “tested”. I understand you are on a limited income and cannot afford legal fees so I sure don’t expect you to take those risks….just curious how their threat was delivered because I haven’t seen one yet and have posted on here more than you. I will be glad to refer anything I get from Sancor to the health department and my attorney general’s office and suggest you do the same. You have a first amendment right to express your opinions on this or any subject and as long as you are being truthful about your experience they know they are blowing smoke when they threaten you.
Alisha on March 7th, 2009
David, if you receive another email again, let me know and I’ll manually remove you from the list. I haven’t heard of any problems with unsubscribing, but there is always a first. =)
Paula on March 11th, 2009
Dan, Any update on the Nature’s Head? Thanks!
dan on March 12th, 2009
We’ve had it installed about 2 weeks now and it’s been fine. The compost bucket is mostly dry and smells of “moldy/musty dirt” instead of sewage. The 2-gallon pee bucket lasts 2-3 days with two of us.
The unit is much a smaller footprint than our Biolet was. The fan uses under 1/10 of an amp (on our 24v system) compared to the Biolet’s 1 amp, (plus requiring the 120v inverter to be on).
Construction is very sturdy, intended for marine or pickup camper use. Overall it’s a very, very simple design that seems to be working so far.
If I have one complaint, it’s that the small fan is not powerful enough to overcome the in-draft caused by my woodstove. With the house closed up tight, the woodstove overpowers the toilet fan and the dirt smell comes into the house. Solved by opening a window a crack and allowing airflow that way.
Paula on March 13th, 2009
Thanks, Dan.
Pooped on March 27th, 2009
My comments are for a Biolet Deluxe purchased from Home Depot. Short version-don’t do this!!!! After two months of operation, a liquid overflow, a broken shear pin, a few useless phone calls to the toll free number, I am thinking this is pretty much a lost cause. Some of the problems they think I may have caused….:) Using out of date compost, vent pipe too short to allow natural convection. By the way, what in heck does natural convection have to do with it when there is a steady breeze blowing up the stack due to the fan running 24/7?????? Raising the vent pipe had no affect on the unit’s ability to evaporate liquids. Still waiting for the non-standard size shear pins. Didn’t make it this week, so they sent some more…maybe next week we will have them. In the meantime, $hit is happening! :)
My plan is to take the whole foul mess outside, clean it out, and start the process over. I want to give it a fair chance, but a little voice is telling me I’m wasting my time. I think I’ve been had. I’ll give it 6 months, but if I can’t get this thing to work after that, I’ll be shopping legal options. NO ONE should pay this much for a product for this intended use and have it fail so dismally.
Dan on April 1st, 2009
Luckiy, we never had a shear pin break. Extending the vent pipe may have dire consequences depending on your climate. At -20 deg F, the top WILL freeze up and then the fan runs but does nothing, and the whole house stinks up quickly. I was told to insulate the pipe better. I don’t care how well insulated the pipe is, at these temps the 1″ un-insulated end WILL frost up.
We are much happier with the Nature’s Head. Yes, it’s a pain emptying the pee bucket every couple of days, but that’s much easier than cleaning the overflowing sludge up from the Biolet.
j-lo on April 12th, 2009
NONE OF THE ENVIROLETS WORK AND THEY KNOW THE WARRANTY CANNOT BE USED DUE TO WASTE CONTAMINATION. THEY ARE A SCAM, I USED TO WORK FOR THE SO I KNOW
a smith on May 7th, 2009
I too am unsatisfied with the performance of my Envirolet. I purchased a Model MS10 in late ‘04 and the unit has never performed to the standards as claimed by the manufacturer. I replaced the unit with a low volume flush system and septic system this April.
I am all too familiar with the sludge as mentioned in the above posts as well as emptying the unit by hand with a garden trowel. The unit could simply not accommodate 2 users, my girlfriend and I. The unit was installed according to manufacturers specs, just never worked as claimed.
After removing the unit from service in April, I gave it a thorough cleaning today with hopes of listing it for sale on craigslist. I stumbled across this board while trying to determine a fair price. After reading of all the other users with similar problems, it is only fair to list it under the free section.
I had two customer service encounters with Envirolet. My first experience was not good. After less than a year, the light on the rocker switch shorted out, I called in hopes of getting a replacement for the unit. The immediate response I received was that I must have done something wrong because this switch could not have failed. Bottom line they would not send a replacement switch. My switch was working with the exception of the light so I let this go. My second customer service experience was better. one positive when my lower thermostat failed. They promptly sent out a replacement for both the upper and lower thermostat.
Bottom line save your $$$ and go with another product or system.
Mike on May 20th, 2009
Wow! I was seriously thinking about an Envirolet for my cabin but after reading all the reports of issues and problems I don’t think it will happen.
I have been also looking for reviews on Sun-Mar but can’t seem to find any. The Excel Electric was another model i was considering. If someone has any stories to tell about them I would appreciate it.
Are there any self contained units that work?
Mike